Hot Rod's 700-hp 5.7L Hemi Build-Up

Discussion of the 5.7L-6.1L-6.4L HEMIs.

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TrWaters
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Post by TrWaters »

Its nice to see all the horsepower numbers people want to reach with these 5.7/6.1/6.4 .... 800...900...1000 with turbos, etc. The fact is that these blocks are not going to take it, and there are going to be a whole lot of people picking up pieces of block and crank off the highway.
Yes, they are new and different,and the heads flow big numbers,but they are not comparable in strength to any of the prior produced Hemi motors, early or late. My .02.
Early hemi to late sb Mopar trans adapters. Precision billet parts for early hemis.
hemidup
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Post by hemidup »

Let's say we have some "concrete'' solutions to help solve the problem. :wink:
392 Blown Hemi
LUCKY-13
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Post by LUCKY-13 »

TrWaters wrote:Its nice to see all the horsepower numbers people want to reach with these 5.7/6.1/6.4 .... 800...900...1000 with turbos, etc. The fact is that these blocks are not going to take it, and there are going to be a whole lot of people picking up pieces of block and crank off the highway.
Yes, they are new and different,and the heads flow big numbers,but they are not comparable in strength to any of the prior produced Hemi motors, early or late. My .02.

You know for a fact at what level the blocks give way at?


Jess
Bailiesdad
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Post by Bailiesdad »

"You know for a fact at what level the blocks give way at?"


Don't have the approximate numbers on the blocks yet, the stock cranks fail way before the blocks' grenade.


BUT....Crower is working on getting a crank to tear up the blocks ... :D
LUCKY-13
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Post by LUCKY-13 »

At what level did the crank let go?

IMHO I dont think the block is going to let go on these engines. Sure there would be some piont, I feel sure they will laugh at 800hp.


Jess
Bailiesdad
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Post by Bailiesdad »

I was told 7-8 mins full 4K load level, running 530-550 HP levels by one of the guys that has the broken cranks. Current stock components pushed to max...

Figures, build to 100% level, reduce power to +/_75% of load, and "letter ride", for the US driving public.

Boosting a stock engine to those or more levels is like pulling the pin on a grenade and then hoping you get the pin back in... :o

sooner or later you are going to drop the pin...... :lol:

probably right after you paid and drive it away from the shop that installed the power adders. :cry:
TrWaters
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Post by TrWaters »

Have I seen any of these blocks break apart? No. What I am saying is that 1: if you read the side bar in the Hot Rod article titled 712 HP time bomb, it tells what the Chrysler engineers have to say about anything over the 500 HP level.
I am sure if the guys at MP thought they had a 1000 hp capable stock block, you would reading those headlines in every car mag available.
Guys will make 800 or 900 hp no doubt, on a couple dyno pulls. But history lends itself to saying a stock block is not going to take that kind of sustained abuse. That is why so many companies, including Mopar, build race blocks.
Early hemi to late sb Mopar trans adapters. Precision billet parts for early hemis.
HemiAl
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Location: rhode island

6.8 Hemi

Post by HemiAl »

GS Motorsports is now producing a stroked, re-sleeved 426 hemi from the 6.1 block (and supercharged with their big boost NOVI 1500 of course).. Dynoed at 740hp, 665rwhp).

I know, I got the first one... in my '06 SRT8 Charger.
There is not enough open road here in Rhode Island to test it's potential.
It's scary fast.

Hemi Al
TrWaters
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Post by TrWaters »

Unless you are racing, I would find it hard to justify the cost to get to 740 hp and 426 c.i.d., especially since the Hot Rod 5.7 Crate motor ending up making 712 h.p. Thats alot of $$$ for 28 h.p. It will however be a good test for the durability of the crank and block. Keep us posted.
Early hemi to late sb Mopar trans adapters. Precision billet parts for early hemis.
Bailiesdad
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Post by Bailiesdad »

Hope you got a real good warranty on the engine.

Here is the story on the last company that tried to boost expensive auto engines to unreal limits.

Calloway made twin turbo Corvette motors in the lat 80's early ninety 90's. They all had real high HP numbers and GM finaly had it as a factory option.

When they began to fail while under warranty, Calloway blamed every failure on the owners, GM told Calloway to take a hike.

GM was not about to tell owners of 50K turned into 100K cars (late80s-early 90s real high) they blew up their motors crusing the freeways.

The "twin turbo" option faded into the sunset. I believe many wanted to install them somewhere else on Calloways' body. :lol: :lol:

John Lingenfelter and Dave Rippie saved GMs rears. Those two repaired many of them and the cars are very fast and valuable. MOF, sent John to top of the exotic engine builder list until his death.

GM replaced every other failed unit with either a buyback or replacement vechicle and sent the bill to Calloway. :oops:
hemidup
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Post by hemidup »

TrWaters, HemiAl's supercharged 426 dyno'd 740 at the wheels. With lets say a 20% drive train loss, that's 888 hp at the crank. We looked into building a 6.1/426 as well, but the rod to stroke ratio scared us off from that project. We like pistons that go up and down, not up and out the side of the block. :lol: I really think that the longevity of the 426 will be short lived. Just my .02
392 Blown Hemi
LUCKY-13
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Post by LUCKY-13 »

hemidup wrote:TrWaters, HemiAl's supercharged 426 dyno'd 740 at the wheels. With lets say a 20% drive train loss, that's 888 hp at the crank. We looked into building a 6.1/426 as well, but the rod to stroke ratio scared us off from that project. We like pistons that go up and down, not up and out the side of the block. :lol: I really think that the longevity of the 426 will be short lived. Just my .02

What was the rod ratio of this setup? If it was not less than1. 55:1 I would worry about it myself. Anyway if they start blowing these engines alot they want sale many of them but if they hold to gether this is going to be interesting. As far as the HP level I am sure it wouldnt take much to pull more out of it ( not counting it holding up but it just making the HP) All it would take is more boost and it will make way more power than the HR 5.7 engine.


Oh, Happy New Year everyone.


Jess
TrWaters
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Post by TrWaters »

Al did post 740 h.p., with 665 rwhp. At any case, it will be a test of the factory components.

It will be interesting to see how far Mopar will go with this design, as far a cubic inches. Does anyone know if the 6.4 uses the same block casting?
Early hemi to late sb Mopar trans adapters. Precision billet parts for early hemis.
hemidup
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Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:47 am

Post by hemidup »

TrWaters wrote: Does anyone know if the 6.4 uses the same block casting?
The 6.4 has the same casting as the 6.1. I'm looking forward to see what 2007 will bring with these small elephants.
392 Blown Hemi
hemidup
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Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:47 am

Post by hemidup »

Lucky-13, From what I know from the engine builders, building the 6.1/426, they use a 4.06" stroke and a 6.200" rod with a 4.085" bore. That gives you a 1.53:1 rod to stroke ratio. The bore is .030" over and with the 6.200" rod, it really pancakes the ring pack unless you shove the piston above the deck. The way I see it, the 6.1/426 is pretty "thin" all the way around.
392 Blown Hemi
SRT10KLLR
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Re: 6.8 Hemi

Post by SRT10KLLR »

HemiAl wrote:GS Motorsports is now producing a stroked, re-sleeved 426 hemi from the 6.1 block (and supercharged with their big boost NOVI 1500 of course).. Dynoed at 740hp, 665rwhp).

I know, I got the first one... in my '06 SRT8 Charger.
There is not enough open road here in Rhode Island to test it's potential.
It's scary fast.

Hemi Al
GS doesn't produce didly they are made by Superior just like mine. Also, I would be leary of the aux injector setup the GS uses on your blown application as it has not been good to alot of engines. Switch to larger inejctors before your engine is a paperweight.
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 RCSB ThunderRoad Hemi Sport w/STS turbo
HemiAl
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Post by HemiAl »

SRT10KLLR,
Yes you're right, Superior did do all the engine (it was their idea to resleeve the 6.1 to address the thin wall problem, etc.)... I went there with Scott form GS last spring to check out the whole process... and thanks, I will check out the aux injectors (someone else mentioned that to me too... must be a concern). The 426 is running great... I haven't blown the thing up yet... but I will keep everyone posted.

I'm trying to post some pics..but my computer is junk since I spend all of my $$$ on cars.... stay tuned.

Hemi Al
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