5.7/6.1 Hemi swaps

Bob Kammer · Post by **Bob Kammer** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:03 pm

New to forum,would like to see a forum for new Hemi swaps 5.7 6.1 etc.
Were doing a 5.7 swap to a 1969 RR lots of questions when we started
Trans hook up,engine mounts,headers,oil pan,pulleys,harminic balancer,intake manifold,brackets and so on. Have solved many problems,
but there are going to be many more.Lots of people are going to need help
with there swaps,a forum will save them time and money.at this point we have the 5.7 sitting in the RR,Charlies deep oil pan,street & performance engine mounts,904 trans,10" converter. Made our step headers 1-5/8" to
1-3/4".Still need to finish hook up on converter have to modify Hemi flex
plate.Need to make decision on intake,computer system,camshafts,and more.Machined a water pump plate to get rid of unnecessary pulleys and brackets.back of water pump plate will take a stock gasket.Car will have air.Lots of things to do and many questions.estimated finish time July 2006.
have some pics

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:50 pm

Bob, good topic, I was just browsing the net and found your statement. I agree, needs to be more postings to help guys like us out.
1st - I new to this hemi thing. I'm going to help my dad put a '04 5.7 in to a '33 panel truck. He has 0 computer skills so we will see where we go from here.
2nd - he was able to acquire the engine and tranny along with the fuel pump and driveshaft. This will help some; however, I too am looking at what computer to run.

If you don't mind I'm going to ask a couple of questions, hopefully you won't find me rude.

I think we are going to start with a factory PCM... do you think this is a good idea? I've considered converting to a Megasquirt and Spark (MSNS) (which I built for my '37 chevy with a TPI, works great!) but it can't currently handle the multiple spark for 16 plugs. I may be able to modify the CPU to make it support the plugs, but I don't think I'll get the same performance.
Also, along this same topic, I'm not sure what year your Hemi is, but the Hemi Truck Club has a 2003 and 2004 service manual. So far I have found this to be a great reference for parts and signal information regarding each of the sensors. This leads me to another stupid question...are you going to keep the fuel injection, or scrap it for a carb? My plans are to stick with everything stock until I fire the engine up with the now planned factory NGC. Once I test the engine I my scrap the NGC and revert to the MSNS.

Any advice you have for performing the installation, I'm more than willing to listen too. Sorry to be so wordy, but I've not performed a Hemi conversion before and am really stoked about it. This should be fun!

If you prefer I get lost just let me know. Thanks

Bob Kammer · Post by **Bob Kammer** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:44 am

At this time were having the pcm reprogramed,been weighting a long time
Have a 2003 and 2005 5.7, wireing for a 2005. will keep the FI at this time
manifold? by the time car is ready there will be manifolds ready for resale
Trans:I talked to Ron Mancine he is installing a 5.7 in a cobra,the tailshaft of the trans hit the rearend yoke, had to go to a 904 trans.My thinking is the smaller the trans the eaiser the install,also your never going to hook the car anyway,also less wireing.
We have 20,000 sq ft at our shop, three dynos,two engine,one chassis
5,000sq ft fab shop.
i will be glad to answer any and all questions,remember this is just my opinion,and i change my opinion when sombody else comes up with something better.Wireing & fi i have to ask the people that work with me.
Also we race the 5.2 and the 5.9 in our trucks in NHRA stock class

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:20 pm

Bob, thanks for the reply, I will keep my eyes on this forum. It sounds like you have a lot of experience in this area. Also, sounds like you have a very good work environment. What do you have to do to get the PCM reprogrammed, and what all is involved? I kinda spoiled using the MSNS since I can tune all of the VE tables and Spark tables on my laptop. I've just never been involved in doing something like getting a PCM reprogrammed. What do they do with the PCM, and do they get rid of a lot of the unecessary sensory inputs like water in fuel and so on? Again I appreciate your response and I will be watching this forum closely.

Mike

Bob Kammer · Post by **Bob Kammer** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:05 am

I would stick with what u know.Its cheaper and easier.
We run the fast systems on 2 of r trucks,and 1 old electramotive on a 360 2 barell throttle body stocker truck. We built (45) 318 mpi engine for the Detroit truck plant about 4yrs ago to be tested and abused behind some proto type transmissions.We met some very nice people that worked with us on the 318/360mpi units for r dynos.There doing a 5.7 unit for us now,they called last week and needed to know the yr and part# of our wireing harness and if we are going to use a throttle cable or fly by wire.
Things are already changing,we might go to the 6.1 coil pack,for looks if nothing else.

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:39 pm

Excellent, it sounds like you are well on your way. I'll keep you posted on how things come. I guess we will see. Also, I'm interested in staying up to speed on what's going on with you. Well take care and I'm sure we will be talk'n.

Mike

Post by **scottm** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:58 pm

New Hemi Swap
http://www.thehemi.com/newhemiswap.php

What do you guys think? Should I work on this page?
Maybe add some photos of certain parts or procedures
that people want to add. Sort of a how-to for swapping?
I've never done the swap, so I would require input from
the website visitors to add information to the page. Let
me know what you guys think and if I should continue to
develop the idea some more...

ProstreetAMX · Post by **ProstreetAMX** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:42 am

I'm currently installing a 2004 5.7 Hemi in my 72 Javelin. Since I got the complete donar truck. I am using the wiring, computor, trans, fuel injection and even the dash from this truck. I am using the complete truck wiring harness from front to back to simplify my conversion. The motor and electronics will stay stock for now, at least till I get the car roadworthy. I used the stock AMC motor mount on the passenger side but had to fabricate a custom mount on the drivers side to clear the rack steering shaft. I did have to modify the trans tunnel to fit the larger overdrive trans but it fit inside the engine bay with no problem. The truck motor is rather tall with a deep sump oil and trans pan so lowering the car has it's limits. Also the truck intake and A/C compressor are rather tall so I had to modify the inner structure of the cowl hood to make it fit. This motor is rather wide and the stock steering shaft had no hope of working. Using the stock computor and drive by wire assembly has saved both time and money. While these parts are available seperatly, they are not cheap. I paid $7500 for the entire truck with only 9500 miles.

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:42 pm

The website looks good. I've been out of the game for quite a while. I'm not sure if you guys are even still watching this forum, but if so, I'm still strongly considering running megasquirt and spark (MSNS) on the hemi and using the NGC controller on the tranny. I should actually get to start on the project next month. The MSNS conversion might be quite intensive as no hemi has yet be done with an MSNS which will provide quite the challenge regarding the hemi's coil packs and two plugs per cyl. I'm going to do some research, but since I'm a novice can anyone tell me why the hemi went with 2 plugs per cyl.? I assume it has something to do with an even flame front, but that is just a guess. Ideas are welcome.

ProstreetAMX · Post by **ProstreetAMX** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:44 am

I believe the dual plug feature had more to do with emissions and fuel efficiency. The had a pretty tough time at first getting this engine to pass smog specs. My current engine swap is going along pretty well with the motor going back in for it's first refire in the coming month or so. I do not have any modifications planned for the motor untill the aftermarket has time to catch up. Then a cam swap and other mods may be considered along with headers if I can get some that will fit my chassis.

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:08 am

Thanks for the quick response. I was considering runing on one plug since i'm going to attempt to build a mega squirt computer to run the system (www.msefi.com) I've built two of these computers for tuned port injected engines and they work great. I did get some feed back on the megasquirt forum http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=104345#104345. Thanks again.

57HEMICUDA · Post by **57HEMICUDA** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:20 pm

Unless you are running forced induction or a turbo the second plug is probably just along for the ride.I ran both plugs on my ls1 gm engine management,because i thought it looked so cool.But i don't think it made that much difference as far as horsepower goes.the car goes to the chassis dyno this week I'll see if I can post the horsepower #'s http://mysite.verizon.net/ls6ron/

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:54 pm

57HEMICUDA, the car is awesome! As far as the plugs go, I was really wondering. I did some research and found the due to valve size and placement, both plugs were needed to get a complete fuel burn in the cylinders. Essentially two flame fronts are started in the cyl. since the placement of the plugs are not in the center of the dome.

My next question was does anyone know why the coil on plug design did not fire both plugs on the same cylinder? With the new Hemi design the one plug has a coil on it with a plug wire coming out of the coil and running to the opposite bank of cyl's. For example the number cylinder has a coil on the plug the fires 1 number 8 plug and 1 number 5 plug, the second plug on the number 8 cylinder is fired by the coil on the number 5 plug.

Any info would be great. Thanks

57HEMICUDA · Post by **57HEMICUDA** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:14 am

The new hemi's fire the plug on the compression stroke ,and the other on the exaust stoke for cleaner burn,[emmisions]The power generated by the engine is off of the 1 plug.The 6.1 hemi's have eliminated the spark plug wire and i beleive are firing both plugs at once off a single coil.If you wanted to, someone is manufacturing a plug to take the place of the second spark plug.I ran mine for a good while off of a single plug.Truthfully only hooked up the second set up for looks.If I have the time I'll unhook the second set of coils while its on the dyno and see if it makes a difference

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:58 pm

Excellent news! Thanks for taking the time to respond. I would be interested in knowing how yours runs without the second set of plugs. It is also good to hear that the 6.1's fire both plugs same cyl. off of 1 coil. I wonder if there is a difference between the coils on the 6.1's and older 5.7's? I'll wait for your info. Thanks again.

mauicuda · Post by **mauicuda** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:37 pm

The 5.7L Hemi crate motor fires both plugs at the same time. The crate motor harness does not have the s/plug wires crossing to the opposite side.

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:17 am

I will once I get the motor in I will probably give it a shot firing both plugs off of same cyl. This will eliminate the plugwire mess. Appreciate the response. Are the coils on the crate motor the same as a factory coil out of a Dodge 1500. I would assume so, but I'm asking? Thanks for the inputs.

hemipackard · Post by **hemipackard** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:20 pm

I am building a 1940 Packard 110 Business Coupe Street Rod and have purchased a 2004 5.7 Hemi engine and tranny out of a Dodge 1500 pickup for the drive train. I NEED HELP

This is my first encounter with fuel injection and engine computers although I do alright on a desktop.

The tranny has a transfer case on it for 4wd. I am not using 4wd and wonder what is going to be necessary to convert the tranny to 2wd by removing the transfer case? Can I just bolt the tail shaft housing to the back of the transmission or will I have to purchase different parts to make this conversion?

As far as the engine is concerned, I would like to put the new 5.7 air intake manifold on the top so I can use the newer engine cover. Can this be done?

Another question is whether or not the 04 5.7 Hemi can be made to run on both 8 and 4 cylinders like the 06 engines?

Any help fellow rodders can give me will be appreciated and this new 5.7-6.1 forum HEMI forum was badly needed.

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:58 pm

hemipackard, the first thing I'm going to do is give you a link to the service manual. http://www.hemitruckclub.com/

I've found this to be very useful, but I hope you have a wideband connection because the meat of this manual is an 89 Meg download. It is the factory service manual, and is awesome for answering many questions.

I finally have the hemi setting in the chassis and I will have to get some pix to post. I've not gotten very far into the project, so I won't be too much help at this time. But hopefully as I go along I will have more information.

As for your questions " The tranny has a transfer case on it for 4wd. I am not using 4wd and wonder what is going to be necessary to convert the tranny to 2wd by removing the transfer case? Can I just bolt the tail shaft housing to the back of the transmission or will I have to purchase different parts to make this conversion"

I think the service manual will describe the variances in the tranny tail shaft and provide you some good pix along with the description.

"As far as the engine is concerned, I would like to put the new 5.7 air intake manifold on the top so I can use the newer engine cover. Can this be done?" I've not stayed up-to-date enough to have researched the diff between the '06's and '04's regarding intake design. The weblink I provided gives you the service manuals from '03 - '06. I hope these manuals can answer some of your questions.

"Another question is whether or not the 04 5.7 Hemi can be made to run on both 8 and 4 cylinders like the 06 engines? " I believe you are referring to the Multiple Displacement System...Correct? If so you should go into some of the other forums and review the MDS systems pros and cons. I did some initial research and found that a couple of people tried to convert their '04 Hemi's to MDS and ran into some problems. I did not want to go that path, so I just did enough research to find out that I did not have the MDS system.

I don't think I've been too much of a help, but maybe this will get you started.

Later

hemipackard · Post by **hemipackard** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:20 am

Thanks for the webb address of the manual. Do you know of any addresses of forums that would deal with MDS?

hotrd37 · Post by **hotrd37** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:56 am

I would go to the forum index of this site and search MDS or multiple displacement system. Also, the previous site I gave you should have some information on it if you search those two topics.

41ChevRod · Post by **41ChevRod** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:32 pm

I'm new to this site. I know this is an old thread, but is of much interest to me. I have a 41 Chevy that I am making a Streetrod out of. I want to put a late model Hemi in it. Lots of good info here, but I would like to know engine and auto tranny dimensions such as: motor mount to motor mount distance, width @ valve covers, length of engine, length width and height of trans, etc. I know it will be a total custom fab job but any info I can get will help.

Thanks!

hemidup · Post by **hemidup** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:42 pm

Give Denny a call at sharadon.com There is a 5.7 block on a stand and several 5-45RFE tranny's as well.

TheHEMI.com

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5.7/6.1 Hemi swaps

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5.7 6.1 swap

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scottm

dual plud Hemi.

5.7L Hemi dual plugs

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