Tapping Noise

Discussion of the 5.7L-6.1L-6.4L HEMIs.

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meljoy24

Tapping Noise

Post by meljoy24 »

Just installed a K&N 77 Series intake and now when I accelerate at part throttle I'm getting a tapping noise and it seems like the engine is working harder than it should, if I floor it the noise goes away. I took it to the dealer and of course they blamed the intake. Any thoughts or advice would be helpful. :-?
twistx
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Loudoun, Virginia

Post by twistx »

holy sh*t, someone with the same intake and same problem!

I have the same problem on my truck. I haven't narrowed it down yet to what it could be. I'm actually thinking of taking the filter off of the intake and just covering it with some pantyhoes to see if its the filter making the noise or the tube itself.

Does yours get louder when its wet outside, and when you're going uphill at low rpm's in like 3rd or 4th?

I'll keep you posted with what I find.
2004 Dodge Ram 1500
Quad Cab, Sport, HEMI
Borla catback exhaust w/ split rear outlets
K&N 77-Series CAI

Soon:
-Edelbrock IAS shocks ( on backorder :( )
-Warn Trans4mer grille guard, light bar, winch carrier
9.5ti winch, SDB-210 spotlights
twistx
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Loudoun, Virginia

Post by twistx »

alright well i took the filter off and cut up part of a tshirt and put that in place went for a drive and it still made the same noise. so its not the filter or the filter banging on the box. the only other part to this intake is the pipe. i want to say its the air being sucked through it thats making the noise but i'm not sure thats it. anyway its raining now so i can't do anymore diagnosis.

i know the Y pipe on the 04's are real shitting. would any of you exhaust pros be able to pin this type of noise on that Y pipe?

my cousin has the same exact intake on his 02 4.7 and he doesn't have this noise.

i posted something on dodgetrucks about this but i didn't get any real responses
http://dodgetrucks.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56460

i'm going to try and contact K&N tomorrow to see if they know about this issue.

any input would be great.

thanks!
2004 Dodge Ram 1500
Quad Cab, Sport, HEMI
Borla catback exhaust w/ split rear outlets
K&N 77-Series CAI

Soon:
-Edelbrock IAS shocks ( on backorder :( )
-Warn Trans4mer grille guard, light bar, winch carrier
9.5ti winch, SDB-210 spotlights
Rampant
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: Virginia

Post by Rampant »

It is probably the egr valve which is located in the intake. By removing the stock air hat, most people say that the noise becomes more noticable.
twistx
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Loudoun, Virginia

Post by twistx »

Ok, i'm a newbie so here's a dumb question.

The EGR valve is the flap thing inside the throttle body right?
2004 Dodge Ram 1500
Quad Cab, Sport, HEMI
Borla catback exhaust w/ split rear outlets
K&N 77-Series CAI

Soon:
-Edelbrock IAS shocks ( on backorder :( )
-Warn Trans4mer grille guard, light bar, winch carrier
9.5ti winch, SDB-210 spotlights
meljoy24

Tapping Noise

Post by meljoy24 »

Yeah the tapping in mine definitely gets louder when it's wet out or going up hill, that is until I floor it to make it stop :D
Rampant
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: Virginia

Post by Rampant »

Actually it is built into the manifold. If I remember correctly on the passenger side a little forward of the throttle body.
twistx
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Loudoun, Virginia

Post by twistx »

cool thanks.

i'll take a look.
2004 Dodge Ram 1500
Quad Cab, Sport, HEMI
Borla catback exhaust w/ split rear outlets
K&N 77-Series CAI

Soon:
-Edelbrock IAS shocks ( on backorder :( )
-Warn Trans4mer grille guard, light bar, winch carrier
9.5ti winch, SDB-210 spotlights
hemifever
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:04 pm

Post by hemifever »

Rampant is right, on '04 models after a CAI install there is a click that is heard under light acceleration. The '03's don't have this same setup.
1971 Plymouth Cuda - 451 stroker
2003 QC 4x4 Dodge Hemi - STS Turbo, KRC 6005 heads & rods, Ross pistons, 6.1L crank & cam, ARP main/head studs, JBA headers, SMT6, APS converter: 575rwtq/492rwhp @ 9psi
2005 Chrysler 300c
Sam Makitra

Post by Sam Makitra »

Hey Fellow Hemi Heads,

I have an 03 QC 1500. One of my buddies with an 03 Avalance/Escalade (any diff?) was so impressed with my HEMI, he sent me a VOLANT cool air intake. After getting the gaskets to seal with my own tube of black silicone rubber, I found a noticeable performance increase in the upper RPMs. The only sound diff with the VOLANT was the sucking of extra air when it wants it. Hey, so what? When I reach that RPM range, I'm hanging on and paying attention to where I'm going anyway : This guy keeps remarking about what a "classy hot rod with REAL balls" my Ram qc is. Of course, he has to wake up next to that GM every morning, and she's REAL UGLY! Anyway he's still not dealing too well with his horsepower deficit. His Volant upgrade didnt impress him as much as mine did. Of course you need some HP to start with!
What a nice guy he is. He needs HEMI HEADS!!!!!!!!! :wink:
Tom Morgan
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:52 pm
Location: LAS VEGAS, NV

Tapping Noise

Post by Tom Morgan »

I've got the exact same issue as "Meljoy24" & "Twistx". I installed a Brute Force intake purchased from truckperformance.com. If anyone knows what I should do, let me know.
hemifever
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:04 pm

Post by hemifever »

There isn't anything you can do on the '04 models that I've read. It's just an echo, nothing is wrong.
1971 Plymouth Cuda - 451 stroker
2003 QC 4x4 Dodge Hemi - STS Turbo, KRC 6005 heads & rods, Ross pistons, 6.1L crank & cam, ARP main/head studs, JBA headers, SMT6, APS converter: 575rwtq/492rwhp @ 9psi
2005 Chrysler 300c
jbirwin
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:51 pm

Post by jbirwin »

I have had the same problem with my 2003 Hemi after I installed an aftermarket K&N cold air intake. Before I had installed it I had the usual Hemi Tick which is normal and the reason is that the intake valve and exhaust valve on the head are almost directly across from each other because the head is actually a bowl shape( Hense the name hemi which means hemispherical head).(Unlike most cars where the head is flat and the valves are next to each other instead of across). Because these valves are directly across from each other you get a ticking sound usually heard from the bottom of the vehicle. This noise is caused when the air intake valve closes and exhaust valve opens the sound of the air intake valve seating is echoed into the exhuast valve which leads out into the exhaust. That is why it is heard from the bottom of the car instead of the top. You are probably asking then why dont you hear the ticking of the exhaust valve when it seats and the air intake valve is opened? Simply the air intake valve leads directly into the head so the noise is dampered by the piston and internal areas of the engine. When a aftermarket air intake is installed this noise will be increase since the noise now bounces of less restriction so it is heard more than before. When you had a stock airbox installed in your car that ticking was not heard more increasingly due to the fact there was more obstacles sound had to travel within a stock airbox, unlike the after market is a straight shot which is all why we by it. Cold air can only be produced with less wind restrictions coming into an engine so with the air cold air intake leading into the trottle body which leads into the heads which is why we hear the sound more increasingly. SOme of you are having problems with the ticking being louder when you climb up a hill in second or third or when it rains( and also these are times when engines work harder). Many of you are thinking that should not happen. The honest truth to that is unlike many cars now of days the Hemi does not carry the same characteristics as most high performance machines. The Hemi does not contain a self learning air sensor within the air intake. Unlike the Corvette, Mustang or Camaro you cannot un-due the battery cable to your battery, install the air intake and plug in the battery cable after you were done start up the engine and the air sensor will learn the air coming into the throttle body. The Hemi lacks that because it is equipped with a diversity sensor. The air flow calculations cannot be changed within the computer with a system that is equipped with an diversity sensor. So what does that mean? you might ask? What this means for all those who have installed a cold air intake and have not reprogrammed your ECU the computer is still set up for the stock air box airflow. This means you have increased the volume of air and speed as well as the temperature of the air but the stock air intake settings remains Unless you have the the ECU remapped for the new air intake the new changes will not take effect. This could be some of the reasons you are getting and increased tapping in your engine and some even a lack of horse power can be caused. In plain laimen terms you are overcoming the volume of air to fuel mixture in a truck that's ECU has not been programmed for it. I hope this may have helped some out there:) And for all of you who think there HEmi tick is irritating should hear what the old Hemi's sound like, you would sware they sounded like a sewing maching. To be honest Hemi has come along way in developement and I think Dodge has made the smart move to bring it back.
2003 Hemi Ram 1500
cwmartin
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Hemi Tick

Post by cwmartin »

Nice post. Very informative, makes a lot of sense. I have a 2005 1500 Ram with the Hemi and I have a 2004 Durango with the Hemi. Both of them have the damn "TICK". One thing I have noticed is that the tick didnt start until I started using Synthetic Oil. I have been Using AMSOIL in both of them and the ticking has gotten worse. I remember awhile ago when synthetics first hit the scene and a lot of people were having a similar problem with there vehicles. Certain types of motors did not like the synthetic oils and I think they were mainly the overhead cam versions. I am planning on switching my vehicles back to DINO OIL and see if that helps. Having this annoying problem, which the dealers say is normal, is a bunch of BS considering these two vehicles cost over $40,000 a piece. Maybe it is just the AMSOIL product but, I will find out. If going backwards in technologies makes this annoying sound go away then so be it. Will just have to change the oil more often. If the motor doesn't last as long, oh well, that's what the extended warranties are there for. Any insight on this would be helpful.

Also, there has been some talk about a TSB related to this subject last year. Anybody have any current info if the TSB ever was released and the number of it?
392heminut
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:16 pm

Post by 392heminut »

jbirwin wrote:Because these valves are directly across from each other you get a ticking sound usually heard from the bottom of the vehicle. This noise is caused when the air intake valve closes and exhaust valve opens the sound of the air intake valve seating is echoed into the exhuast valve which leads out into the exhaust. That is why it is heard from the bottom of the car instead of the top.
That doesn't make any sense. When the piston comes up on the compression stroke both valves are closed and the plug fires, pushing the piston down. The piston then comes up on the exhaust stroke, at which time the exhaust valve is open. As the piston gets to the top of the exhaust stroke the intake valve then OPENS as the exhaust valve CLOSES. The piston then starts down on the intake stroke and the intake valve closes at the bottom of the stroke. Therefore, the intake valve is NEVER closing while the exhaust valve is open.
Owner of the Poor Man's Hemi Cuda
SoCalHemi04

Post by SoCalHemi04 »

Its been posted and proven many times that the new Hemi's lose power with a KN. This engine is very senitive to intakes and backpressures from open exhausts. You will have a ticking sound with after market intakes and or exhausts...just know its ok and live with it.
cwmartin
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Hemi Tick

Post by cwmartin »

This is the follow up to my earlier reply. I changed the oil in my 05 Ram and 04 Durango from the synthetic to Castrol 10-40 DIno Oil. The Damn Tick is GONE!!!!! HALELUHAH!!! It seems that my Hemi's did not like the Synthetic Oil. On the Ram I actually heard it get less and less then all gone as the oil circulated through the motor. There was a reason why I choose the Castrol. It was the only oil I found locally that was at the most current API specs. The most current API spec is "SM" (October 2004 release). Apparently pretty much every other oil(even synthetic)on the market is still at "SJ"(1996 spec) or "SL"(1998 spec). Whether this had anything to do with the noise I can't be sure. All I know is that it is gone and my 05 Ram sounds better than it ever has. Very quiet with just a faint injector tick(higher pitch noise).

Maybe some of you guys should try and go with old fashioned DINO OIL with an API spec of at least "SM" and see if it helps. It did for me.
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